The Original vs The Tube Gun

“Original or a tube gun?” This is a dilemma that many machine gun purchasers face at one time or another. Original guns are usually preferred, but there are many factors that make the choice to buy an original gun unpractical, or difficult.

An original gun, can first of all be difficult to locate. It can also be much more expensive than a non original gun, sometimes costing two to three times more. As you are probably well aware, no machine gun is cheap. Original guns, sometimes over fifty years old, can also be hard to find in decent original condition.

On the other hand, “tube” or remanufactured guns have usually been refinished and can be more appealing to the eye. Some will argue that wear and tear on an original weapon adds character and authenticity.

This of course raises the question, “Why are you considering the purchase of a machine gun?” People purchase them for shooting or for their collections. The most popular category would be “both”.

This brings another question to the table. How badly do you want to shoot an original gun? It is a fact that a lot of people purchase an original gun as a collector/shooter. Soon they begin to feel they are devaluing their original gun too much by firing it. They then purchase a tube gun of the same type for shooting and they then keep the original as a collector’s item only. Ideally that’s the way to go, but unfortunately few people are able to do that.

The purpose of this article is to compare an original, all-matching, German MP40 vs an MP4O with a receiver of a new manufacture, commonly known as a tube gun. We will compare features and performance of each of the guns.

The German MP40, like many German weapons of WWII vintage, have the weapons serial number (or a portion of the serial number) stamped on virtually every part of the gun: the bolt, barrel, stock etc. When a gun has all the matching original parts still intact, the gun is usually referred to as an “all matching gun”. An all-matching gun is considered far more valuable than one that is not.

The Original MP40 used in the test is a WWII gun of German manufacture. It is all-matching, and has 85 to 90% of the original finish remaining. It has the early flat side magazine housing and black plastic furniture. It is marked fxo 41, indicating that it was manufactured in 1941 by Haenel in Germany during WWII. For shooting purposes a barrel, bolt assembly and firing pin/recoil spring from a MP40 spare parts kit are installed. If a part (such as a barrel) is damaged on an all matching gun it will devalue it considerably. I might mention at this time that I rarely fire this gun, and its not because I don’t want to.

The MP40 came from a police department in Texas, where it was registered in 1967. No one currently at the department could remember where it came from, although before it gained a display spot on the wall, officers had taken it out on patrol. No one could remember ever having fired it in the line of duty.

The second gun used in the test was the MP40 tube gun. It belongs to gun collector/shooter Herb Plummer. He bought it a while ago for about half the going rate of an original one. Herb was looking for an original MP40, but he could not find one in suitable condition. The originals he did locate were very expensive, and not in the condition he wanted. Most were not all-matching weapons. Also, he says that he was looking for an MP40 to shoot, not to look at.

Herb purchased his MP40 directly from class II manufacturer Charlie Erb who also manufactured and registered the receiver tube. The trigger/lower housing assembly was marked bnz 42, indicating that it was manufactured in 1942. Most of the other parts were also marked bnz, the manufacturing code for Steyr.

The tube MP40 is also an all-matching gun. Charlie Erb makes them that way. He very carefully marks all his MP40s so that all the numbered parts match the serial number he assigned the tubes he manufactured (all prior to 1986). His serial numbers end in a small case letter like the originals.

At first glance Charlie’s guns look like all-matching originals. Even the Nazi eagles are stamped on the receiver tube. The tube MP40 had a blue finish that is very close to the gloss and color of an original gun. None of the original markings on the parts had been buffed away, which often gives away a poor reblue job.

Both guns fired and handled in much the same way. Both had the normal MP40 “wobbly stock”. The cyclic rate was, as expected, very similar. Both guns were 99.9% reliable. Malfunctions could usually be traced to the ammunition used. Reloads with cast lead round nose bullets were used, with no feeding or functioning problems. The only problem with lubricated cast lead bullets is that (during a long burst) the burning lube makes a lot of smoke, obscuring the target.

Accuracy of both MP40s was about the same. The cyclic rate is too fast to easily get off a single shot. We decided to see how many rounds we could get into a torso sized steel target at 50 yards. The best either of us could do was 18 out of 30, with a continuous 30 round burst.

The biggest problem with accuracy was the movement of the wobbly stock. Every time I would start a continuous burst, the stock would move, throwing me off target. About the time I corrected my aim, the magazine would be empty. I have fired other subguns at the same target, in the same manner, and had a lot more hits. I’m not saying the MP40 is an inaccurate weapon. Its weight and balance make it one of the better subguns of WWII. But the stock makes it difficult to shoot accurately. Unfortunately the MP40 stock is not easily repaired.

There was a problem with some parts not fitting the tube gun. One spare bolt would not interchange into the tube, while two others fit properly. There was a problem installing a spare trigger housing. All the parts fit onto the original tube with no problem. This isn’t cause for excessive concern, as it is common for original MP40 parts not to be 100% interchangeable. This is especially so between different manufacturers.

The tube MP40 is all-original WWII manufacture, except of course for the stripped tube. In this case the receiver is so marked that only upon close examination can you tell that it is not an original gun. The easiest way to identify a tube gun from an original is by examining the inside of the tube. An original gun will be fluted inside as it is on the outside. New-manufacture receiver tubes will usually be smooth inside. This applies only to the MP40. The earlier original MP38’s were manufactured with a smooth surface inside the receivers.

Under combat conditions the flutes or channels inside the MP40 tube made it more reliable, by giving any dirt or debris inside the tube a place to go. This helped prevent stoppages and jamming, a potentially deadly situation for the operator in a fire fight.

Machining flutes or channels in new manufacture, pre-1986 MP40 receivers was neither cost effective nor necessary for a recreational machine gun.

SUMMARY: Both guns were equally fun to shoot. Original MP40s have gone up in price considerably in the last few years. So much so that they are now in the collector only category. That means only shooting them occasionally, if at all. One big advantage is that original guns are considered C&R or Curio and Relics.

This is advantageous to those who reside in states that only allow C&R machine guns, or those who have a C&R license. Tube guns are not considered either curio or relics by the BATF.

Both guns functioned, and fired identically. Both MP40s are sure to continue to go up in value. Conclusion? The choice is basically up to you and your bank account.

MP40 Field Strip – Unload Firearm!!

By Jim Schatz & Dan Shea

At a facility in West Virginia, there exists what might be considered the home of the American Government’s firearms technical excellence, which includes a unique working firearms collection not before shown to the public. Imagine a facility staffed by highly experienced, dedicated working professionals charged with providing legally undisputable firearms and ammunition technical support to US Federal and local government agencies and friendly foreign governments. Imagine the assembly of a collection of rare, one-of-a-kind prototypes, first run samples, failed industry ideas and highly collectable once-transferable ordnance pieces ranging from the Colt AR-15 Model 607 (Model 7) to Russian Model 1905 Brass Maxim water-cooled machine guns. Conceive, as well, of the compilation of a firearms and ammunition reference library second to none comprised of extensive technical data on a world of offerings in small arms and ordnance materials. Task this organization with defining and enforcing the complex sea of applicable regulations and interpretations as they relate to the technical aspects of firearms and their classification under Federal laws. Combine all of this into one outfit and you would have the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

In the ATF chain of command, FTB is part of the Firearms Programs Division, which, in turn, is directed by the Office of Enforcement Programs and Services (EPS). Few SAR readers need much of an introduction to ATF. Where this article will tread new ground is in revealing the fascinating collection of firearms, ordnance items, accessories, and dangerous and unusual pieces that make up the “National Firearms Collection” (NFC). The highly experienced staff of the ATF Firearms Technology Branch has overall responsibility for the management of this one-of-a-kind collection that is comprised of more than 10,000 serial numbered items. It is certainly safe to say that no other collection of this type exists anywhere in the United States. Small Arms Review was offered an exclusive chance to be the first and only small arms periodical to cover the contents of this fascinating collection. This assemblage of reference firearms was first compiled by the Bureau of Internal Revenue, later to become the IRS that we know today, as criminal evidence acquired as early as 1931. The items were later transferred to ATF in July 1972 when this entity first separated from the IRS and became a distinct Bureau within the Treasury Department. These older IRS-era pieces are some of the most fascinating items in the collection as they are still complete with the original hand written evidence tags.

Mission First

The mission of the FTB is multifaceted. The workforce of Firearm Enforcement Officers and support personnel, which includes armorers and administration staff, has the primary tasking to support law enforcement investigations and programs related to the use of firearms and related ordnance materials. In fact, well over half of the Branch workload is dedicated to supporting law enforcement programs and investigations. Support is rendered to US Federal agencies, the Department of Defense, to State and local law enforcement organizations, to the ATF Office of Chief Counsel, to Congressional affairs personnel, to the firearms industry, and to the general public. This includes the examination, testing, and classification of firearms-related evidence submitted to the unit as a result of ongoing criminal investigations. This can also include technical support for search warrants and technical training for US and foreign forensic personnel in areas such as tooling marks, firearms operation, and manufacturers’ markings. FTB personnel provide expert testimony in criminal prosecutions; train agency personnel related to firearms use; provide and/or assist in the maintenance, employment, and support of existing issue agency weapons; and help with the selection of new weaponry. FTB staff members are available to answer the technical questions of almost any nature and on any subject posed to them by investigators, members of the industry, and civilians. It is highly likely that if you have contacted the ATF Headquarters in Washington, DC, with a question on a firearms-related technical or regulatory issue, it would have been answered by a member of the Firearms Technology Branch. This author found the members of the Branch to be dedicated, very experienced in the field of firearms, well known within the firearms community, especially at the supervisory level, and committed to their profession; and he discovered, further, that many were hard core gun aficionados with personal interests in the history of these firearms. Many are former military or law enforcement personnel and are active in after hours’ firearms-related activities like competitive shooting, gun collecting, and the ways of the firearms community in general. They are also regular readers of Small Arms Review, when the branch copy can be located. It is reported that SAR is one of the most popular gun magazines at the FTB.

The role of the FTB armorers is to provide maintenance and support for all ATFissue firearms and those props used for investigations and trials. The level of technical expertise has to be especially complete when one considers that an armorer assigned to this unit may have to be able to set the headspace on an M2HB, determine the safety of a “home grown” firearm like a pen gun or silencer prior to confirmatory testing required in support of every criminal investigation, determine the origin and year of manufacture of illegally imported AKs from the former Yugoslavia, or decide which transferable Vietnam era AR-15s confiscated in a criminal investigation should be destroyed. There are few Government or industry conducted armorers training courses for many of the firearms in the collection simply because of the point of origin and technical nature of the more unique items.

The Firearms Technology Branch is charged with ascertaining the technical nature of illegally manufactured or modified weapons. For instance, in a case where a legal semiautomatic firearm, seized from a criminal during an investigation, has been converted to fire in a fully automatic mode, FTB Firearms Enforcement Officers will inspect that weapon and record the nature of the modifications made to its mechanism. Once the weapon is deemed safe to fire, FTB personnel have ammunition of almost any type available and an indoor firing range to conduct a live-fire test of the firearm to confirm that it does in fact function as an illegally modified weapon. This same procedure is used for silencers where FTB has available the latest sound metering technology to test the sound reduction of everything from stolen US Government equipment to improvised silencers made from a variety of items available from a local hardware store or supermarket. The Branch will also test weapons which have discharged accidentally during an investigation and those that are converted to full auto illegally. Dealing with weapons that are highly modified and possibly unsound requires careful pre-firing studies and safety assessments before they can be safely fired. To ensure staff safety when handling potentially dangerous ordnance items, FTB draws on the extensive in-house experience and judgment of its staff, and occasionally outside subject matter experts when necessary.

The FTB evaluates imported firearms to ensure compliance with the provisions of Title 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, § 935(d). In cases where candidate firearms are disapproved for importation or sale due to non-compliance with import requirements, these articles must be re-exported or destroyed, and often are abandoned due to excess costs or tedious procedures. When abandoned, they may become part of the National Firearms Collection. If you were looking to see how not to seek import approval on semiautomatic SKSs or AKs, the FTB has many examples of failed attempts by importers to properly modify semi-auto rifles to meet importation guidelines. We saw samples of SKSs with some full auto parts, full auto sear mounting holes and even one that actually had a selector lever for full auto fire. Along with these, there are firearms built in proscribed countries and transshipped to a “friendly” country and falsely claimed as satisfactory in origin.

In accordance with Title 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, § 922(p)(1), “Undetectable Firearms Act,” FTB personnel survey and test domestic and foreign origin handguns to ensure they meet the minimum size, functional, and material content requirements for commercial sale. The Branch also tests for compliance any ammunition that may fall into the controlled category of “Armor Piercing.” And finally, and in addition to an already packed business day, the FTB must also evaluate NFA-related documents and provide comments to ATF Chief Counsel, analyze proposed new legislation when requested by the Office of Public and Governmental Affairs, prepare all correspondence concerning the classification of firearms as “curios” or “relics,” and prepare correspondence for importers and manufacturers concerning marking requirements for firearms and related materials.

Now the Fun Stuff 

Within the National Firearms Collection, there are all manner of weapon reference types, many that would never be seen anywhere else. This includes racks and racks of rifles, both military-style assault rifles and conventional commercial hunting and competition rifles; submachine guns in various sizes and shapes; machine guns light, medium, and heavy; sniper rifles; shotguns; and destructive devices to include single-shot, multipleshot, and automatic grenade launchers. Each weapon’s category is organized by country of origin and/or alphabetically. Below the long gun racks are cabinets with drawer after drawer of handguns arranged alphabetically by maker or country of origin, both revolvers and semiautomatics, as well as full auto machine pistols, again some made by licensed manufacturers and those illegally made in unlicensed “work shops” both in the US and abroad. Within the handgun drawers are countless examples of silencers, pen guns, flash light guns, “zip” guns, toy and miniature guns, homemade AOWs (Any Other Weapons), and even an entire line of wearable “clothing guns” that includes an assortment of belt buckle, pager, cell phone, brass knuckle, knife, arm and even ring guns.

The collection includes reference samples of various automatic sears and lower receivers, such as the wide assortment of MAC-type lower receivers in various stages of completion. Within the NFC resides an excellent collection of crewserved weapons and anti-tank rocket launchers, like the infamous RPG and the WWII-era British PIAT launcher. ATF does not purchase or accept donated weapons from industry into the collection so the vast majority of the reference pieces have been added to the collection as a result of FTBs daily performance of its extensive mission portrayed above.

The reference collection includes mostly criminal case seizures, expired bond weapons not sold during the 5-year allowable period, those surrendered by unwary civilians, and, as indicated, samples sent in for ATF review and approval by US importers and manufacturers seeking permission for import and/or sale, which in some cases are later abandoned to ATF. When asked, our FTB guide for the day and the Vault Curator answered quickly that the most common WWII “bring-back” weapons have been MP40 submachine guns, lots of MP44s, and Czech ZB26 and ZB30 light machine guns, of all things. Not surprisingly, weapons from the Pacific theater are also not uncommon. Library pieces are donated by other agencies and many have returned from service overseas as a result of combat operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, such as Iranian-made G3 rifles included in the FTB collection. One of the more interesting unofficial “displays” was a cart marked for destruction of, shall we say, obviously well-used 1960s-era US AR-15s, M60s and M79s that were captured by the North Vietnamese after the fall of Saigon and were later smuggled back into the United States and quickly confiscated by US Customs and ATF personnel. There is even a sawed-off and exquisitely engraved 12 gauge Purdy shotgun originally valued at more than $50,000 on display No one ever said all criminals were smart.

Important Notices

As we dive into this extensive photographic collection expertly recorded by SAR Editor in Chief and Technical Editor Dan Shea, it must be stated that the ATF National Firearms Collection is not open to the public. As a working reference collection, access is available to other Government personnel involved in official business generally via request to the Chief, FTB.

It must also be stated that manufacturing firearms and/or silencers, or making certain key changes in a weapon’s configuration (overall length, barrel length, external features, etc.) or changing the function of a firearm in many cases requires special approval and licensing in advance from ATF. Readers are advised to check with their local ATF office and/ or the ATF Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide before proceeding on home projects of this nature and to always remember “All ATF rules apply.”

Acknowledgements

The co-authors for this article and the fine folks at Small Arms Review magazine would like to thank the men and women of the Firearms Technology Branch, and the leadership at the ATF, for the opportunity to see and record the fascinating and significant ordnance pieces that make up this one-of-a-kind collection for SAR readers.

Ever since a military force fielded the first submachine guns, attempts at increasing their firepower have been made by both the engineers that designed them, and the soldiers to whom they were issued. In each case the increased ammunition load defeated the fundamental ideas behind the submachine gun’s concept of “Lightweight and handy”.

Several different methods were attempted by the designers to increase the ammunition load. The most common was the high capacity drum style magazine. The drums had to be loaded by inserting each cartridge by hand into the spiral track; taking care not to knock over the column of rounds already loaded. This task was next to impossible to perform in a low or no light situation. The next step was to wind the spring loaded operator to place tension on the loaded rounds. This would produce substantial noise that could prove fatal in a combat scenario.

The American .45 caliber Thompson Submachine Gun was originally designed to utilize a 50 or a 100 round drum style magazine. The loaded drums added 5 pounds and 8.5 pounds, respectively to the already hefty 10.75 pound Thompson. When equipped with a fully loaded 100 round drum the Thompson’s weight is similar to that of the U.S. 30’06 caliber 1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)! The Finnish Suomi submachine gun also used a 71 round drum magazine that was later copied by the Russians and used in their PPD and PPSh series of submachine guns. The loaded 71 round drum added 4 pounds to the Russian weapon compared to the 35 round box magazine’s 1.5 pounds.

The drums, while certainly providing additional firepower over a conventional box type of magazine, proved unsuited for combat use. The drums were difficult to quickly reload, easily damaged and heavy. They were also more expensive and time consuming to manufacture. The much simpler box magazine was better suited for military use. Virtually every nation that began World War Two issuing drum style magazines was issuing only the box type by the war’s end in 1945. A capacity of approximately 30 rounds seemed to be the optimum load for the box magazine.

Attempts to increase the capacity of the box magazine resulted in a few longer than normal, 50 round capacity versions like that of the British Lanchester submachine gun. The problems encountered were the additional spring pressure needed to operate the follower and the overall length proved somewhat cumbersome. The extended capacity magazines where also difficult to load. The Suomi submachine gun, in addition to a drum, had a unique 50 and 56 round duplex style magazine. These abnormally wide box style magazines held four rows of ammunition rather than the more conventional double or single stack magazines.

Attempts by soldiers in the field to increase firepower were accomplished by taping two, or even sometimes three magazines together. These would be joined together in such a manner, that the after one magazine was emptied it was simply flipped over and the fresh one that was taped to it was inserted into the weapon. The disadvantage, in addition to weight, was the bulky two magazine combination was difficult to carry in a pouch or by any other means.

The Germans attempted to increase the firepower of their very successful MP40 in 1942 by redesigning the magazine housing. The housing was enlarged so that two standard issue double stack, single feed 32 round MP40 magazines could be inserted into the weapon at the same time.

The magazines were mounted side by side. When the first magazine was emptied, the other one could quickly be moved into position by pressing on a lever located at the front of the housing. This would allow the spent magazine to be readily moved out of position, and the fresh magazine, at the same time would be moved into the firing position. Each magazine had a separate release button located at the rear of the magazine housing. According to the Wehrmacht standard operating procedures, the troops moved the full magazine into firing position, then would replace the empty one. This would enable them to have a loaded weapon at the ready while changing out the empty magazine. Both magazines were only emptied simultaneously in extreme situations.

This special high capacity, 64 round MP40 was originally requested to arm Sonderverbaende, or special operations troops. These troops often fought in close intense combat situations and ambushes where a high magazine capacity is highly desirable. In such situations an untimely magazine change could mean the soldiers life.

German troops fighting on the Russian front were also intrigued by a high capacity submachine gun, to match the 71 round firepower of the Russian PPSh41. Any requests made were most likely denied, due to the extremely limited number of dual magazine MP40s produced. The Russian PPSh41 was a favorite weapon of the German troops when captured. They liked its rugged reliability and especially the 71 round drum magazine. Ironically, captured PPSh’s were converted by German armorers to 9mm and adapted to use 32 round MP40 magazines by the use of a magazine adapter, and a new 9mm barrel.

The dual magazine MP40 is often mistakenly referred to as the MP40/II. It was officially listed for the first time in the official Wehrmacht equipment list dated June, 1943 as the gerätenummer (equipment number) 3004-MP40/I. It is not known where the commonly used, but incorrect, MP40/II nomenclature originated. Perhaps from another earlier model mistakenly called the MP40/I.

The early MP40’s were sometimes referred to as simply, the MP40. These earliest models featured a flat magazine housing and a hook style bolt cocking handle. Due to the large number of accidents, a new bolt handle was designed for the MP40 to enable the bolt to be locked into the forward position in the receiver. Most of the early MP40’s were retrofitted with the new safety bolt handle.

Subsequent MP40 models were manufactured with the new safety bolt handle and a ribbed magazine housing. The ribbed housing gave the shooter’s weak hand a better surface to grip, and the ribs also strengthened the housing. This model is commonly referred to, also incorrectly, as the MP40/I. The MP40/I designation of this model was never a German assigned nomenclature for this particular variation.

The dual magazine MP40 is an extremely rare item today. There have been very few known to have survived the war. The ones pictured are both from private collections. Only two other dual magazine MP40s are known to exist. One is in the U.S. Army Museum at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland. That weapon is a Steyr manufactured model, dated 1943 serial number 731h. The other is on display in the Imperial War Museum, Great Britain. That example is Erma manufactured, 1943 dated serial number 1144h.

The rarity of the weapon itself suggests that it was not a success. The 12.1 pound loaded weight, and the bulk of the additional magazine made it quite cumbersome for troops. The bulky, protruding sheet metal dual magazine housing could be easily damaged under rough use, and the sliding magazine mechanism could be jammed by dirt. Either scenario would put the weapon out of action. One advantage to the additional magazine weight was it helped keep the muzzle from rising during a long burst of full auto fire.

Only the Firms of Erma Werk (ayf code) and Steyr (bnz code) manufactured the dual magazine weapons in late 1942 and 1943. Other than the special magazine housing itself, the dual magazine MP40 is identical to the more common single magazine models. There are no special markings or designations on the dual magazine weapons. Field stripping and maintenance procedures are essentially the same for both models.

For more interesting information on the MP40 check out the new book “The German MP40” available from Moose Lake Publishing 207-683-2959

A special thank you to Mike Free and Lou Pacilla for allowing me to photograph their rare MP40’s featured in this article.